| Welcome to the latest edition of the Watch Club newsletter. I’m Chris Rovzar, the editor of Bloomberg Pursuits, and I’m glad to see you again, because I’ve got a bit of gossip. One of the most famous anecdotes of horological history, known to many nerds, is the story of Roger Smith’s Pocket Watch No. 2. It’s a long tale, but I’ll do my best to tell it quickly. Smith, a legend in watchmaking, has an eponymous brand, Roger W Smith, that specializes in handmade timepieces that are so sought-after they can gavel for hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars at auction.  Roger Smith’s Pocket Watch No. 2. Everything you see here is made and decorated by hand. Source: Phillips But he wasn’t always a legend. As an aspiring watchmaker in the UK, young Smith looked up to master craftsman George Daniels, the man who literally wrote the book on modern watchmaking. After graduating from watchmaking school in Manchester and meeting Daniels during his studies, Smith set out to hand-make a pocket watch (as in, yes, make all the components by himself), hoping he could impress Daniels with it and earn an apprenticeship. It took him 18 months to make this first tourbillon pocket watch. He showed up at Daniels’ studio on the Isle of Man and showed it to him. The watch was not up to snuff, and the apprenticeship was denied. But Smith did not give up. He returned home to his parents’ garage and spent the next five years—from 1991 to ’96—working on a second watch. It was a yellow gold perpetual calendar tourbillon pocket watch with a moon phase, a leap year indicator and a spring detent escapement. (You can read the whole backstory at Phillips.) Smith nervously brought it to Daniels. And … it was good enough. Apprenticeship: approved! Thus was launched Smith’s landmark career and a legendary partnership between the two. All thanks to the Roger Smith Pocket Watch No. 2. And, I just learned, financier Bill Ackman now owns that watch. It is, I think it’s fair to say, a wild thing to own. I had the chance to catch up with Ackman while we were in Geneva during April’s Watches and Wonders trade fair, and he told me about how he won it anonymously at auction in 2023. (Smith himself sold it in 2004 to fund the start of his company, and it’s been in private hands since.) Ackman’s ownership hasn’t been revealed until now. Ackman said he might also get Smith’s junky first watch too.  Inside the No. 2’s caseback. Source: Phillips I was not expecting this revelation—we were there to talk about something else Ackman recently secured ownership of: the Bremont Watch Co., a British brand founded in 2002 by brothers Nick and Giles English. Ackman, worth an estimated $7.9 billion according to the Bloomberg Billionaire’s Index, is the founder and chief executive officer of Pershing Square capital management, an activist investor firm with about $18 billion under management. Ackman bought a minority stake in Bremont in 2023, and then announced on X on April 1 that a trust of his and other affiliates now own 63% of the company—and that he is now non-executive chairman of the company. You can read his whole declaration of intent over on X. It’s interesting. I talked to him the day he posted it—which it should be noted was the day before the Trump tariffs were announced, on April 2, so I couldn’t get his insights on how that would affect the European timepiece industry or his own company. We had a conversation that was pretty much only about his watch collecting and his plans for Bremont. Of course there is a lot more to talk about when it comes to Bill Ackman! Particularly when it comes to President Trump and economic policy. You should follow my brilliant colleagues Katherine Burton and Annie Massa if finance and American politics are more your kind of news. But back to watches, which is why we are here. My interview with Ackman has been condensed and edited for clarity and brevity. How many watches do you have now?
Fifty. What are your favorites?
So, in the British watch category, probably my most important watch is one from 1945. After the war, a group of Swiss businessmen got together and made four watches. One for FDR, one for Stalin, one for De Gaulle and one for Churchill. And I’m a big Churchill fan. When the Churchill watch showed up at an auction, no one else was paying attention. And I was prepared to pay almost anything for it, so I got it. It’s called the Churchill Victory watch. [Editor’s note: It sold at Sotheby’s London for $738,000 in 2015.] Wow. That must’ve been a thrill.
Yeah. I had to get permission from the British government for it to leave the country.  The Churchill Victory watch’s enamel dial shows St George slaying the dragon, with his trident acting as the hour hand. If it looks familiar, it was crafted by watchmaker Louis Cottier—who did the same complication for Patek Philippe. Source: Sotheby's That’s some Lord of the Rings kind of s---.
Isn’t that cool? And the other special one that I have also a British watch. Do you know the Roger Smith-George Daniels story? You know he created a watch to try to get a job? Took him five years. Yes.
Do you know he was turned down? And then he went back, melted down the case from the first watch, used it to build parts for the second one. Took five years for the second watch, went back to the Isle of Man, got the job. I have Watch 2, and he’s working on building the case for Watch 1 for me. So I’ll have Watch 1 and Watch 2 from Roger Smith. Oh my God.
I had to pay up for it. [Editor’s note: The $4.9 million set a record for Phillips for a British watch.] And you have the movement for Watch 1.
I have effectively an option on it. I don’t own any new Roger Smith watches—I’m waiting in line. But I had an advantage in the auction, even though a very important customer of his was sitting next to him at it. I was bidding over the phone, and the guy was just staying with me the whole way. So I started jumping in $250,000 increments to try to scare him away. The advantage I had was, the day before I had met Roger for the first time. I was introduced by the auctioneer, and I learned the whole story, and I said, “Whatever happened to watch No. 1?” He said, “Well, I have the movement in a drawer. It’s the case I melted down.” I said, “Well, would you let me buy watch No. 1? Would you make me a case?” So my deal with him is if I won watch No. 2 in the auction, I would get to buy watch No. 1. How do you top that?
My idea is, eventually I want to build a watch museum. So these were, I thought, important additions. Where? In the UK or in the US?
Probably in New York. I got to help my home city. And so I got work to do. But now I’ve gotten distracted with this Bremont project.
Speaking of the Bremont project, that day at Watches and Wonders I was sitting and chatting not only with Ackman, but with Davide Cerrato, the CEO Ackman brought on board in 2023. I’ve interviewed Cerrato before; he’s an interesting guy who’s had stints at HYT, Panerai, Montblanc and Tudor, where he oversaw the introduction of the Black Bay line, a gamechanger for the Rolex sister brand. The two of them went on to tell me about their plans for Bremont and how it’s currently faring. Bill, today in an online manifesto you solicited ideas for Bremont from your followers. What made you want to solicit feedback? Ackman: I’m an investor. It’s fundamentally what I do. I learned this business watching Warren Buffett videocassettes and learning from others. I think you can learn a ton from others. And in this business it’s about what the customers think. You want to hear from your customers when they’ve had a service issue or a reliability issue or they have an idea. We can also give away a bunch of free watches for the best ideas. How many is a bunch? Ackman: Whatever it takes.
 Cerrato at the Wing in Henley-on-Thames. Source: Paul Wilmot Communications Davide, how have been things going since you joined a couple of years ago?
Cerrato: It’s super exciting. And, despite a difficult market, we are still growing in terms of turnover. Ackman: Maybe more importantly, with more units, because the company launched a lower-priced line. Cerrato: Correct, the Terra Nova, inspired by military pocket watches. And we are expanding geographically in the Middle East and in India. India is really the market of the future. We’re also focusing very much in the US, which is our second-biggest market. When we last spoke, you talked about bringing the price point down generally. Cerrato: Not bringing down—it’s more about adding to the existing offering an entry point that’s little bit lower, down to 2,500 CHF to 3,500 CHF (to $3,025 to $4,236) with the Terra Nova line. And it has been very successful. We are recruiting new customers, especially younger customers. Ackman: It introduces the brand to someone at a stage in life where they can aspire to grow with us.
 What’s your current stance on manufacturing in the UK? That was a priority of the English brothers, and seems less of a priority now. Cerrato: That is a misunderstanding. We do everything in Henley. And we are the only brand in the UK to do everything from the design to the servicing in the same place. When it gets to movement or some components, we source them in Switzerland, from Sellita, for example, because it’s just the best quality you can find today. So do you want to bring more stuff into the UK or are you good with the ratio as it is now? Cerrato: We do everything in the UK. Ackman: Everything is built in the UK, except movements are purchased in Switzerland. Well, you used to also make cases in the UK. Now you don’t. Cerrato: Because it doesn’t make any sense economically, really. You can find better quality. Ackman: So the long-term aspiration—someday we do our own movement for real. But that’s when we’re at 250 million. [laughs] So, next year.
 Is it tricky to invest in something you’re passionate about?
Ackman: No, it’s easy. It’s not a bad idea? Ackman: No, not at all. First of all, the watch business, if you get it right, it’s a great business. Look, a lot of people in my industry, they own football teams, baseball teams. It can be an expensive habit. It’s like Formula One teams, but it’s much cheaper. I got a little watch company. Well, how’s this project going? The last results I saw, in 2023, were not great. How are the numbers? Ackman: You’re such a short-termer. I have to ask! Ackman: The brothers did an incredible job over 20 years, getting this from nothing, without any experience, into a £20 million brand. That’s a very challenging thing to do. To get it from £20 million to £100 million, change needed to happen. And so, Davide came in and changed a lot quickly. Logo, design, consolidated the brand, came up with the three spokes of the product strategy [land-, sea- and air-themed watches], recruited a new team and then also dealt with some legacies in the past. Now, bear in mind, when you change a brand this much, you’re going to lose some old customers, at least initially. What’s your biggest market? Cerrato: E-commerce has doubled in the US, and now we sell more on e-commerce in the US than in the UK. Ackman: But this is not a real estate investment trust, where we’re looking for a yield. All right, Bill, if you say so. Ackman: It’s about building something of value and really taking a long-term approach.  A photograph of Giles (left) and Nick English at the Wing, from our 2021 profile on Bremont. In it, the brothers discuss their plans to build all manufacturing in house and thus bring watchmaking back to British shores. Source: Bremont What company do you want Bremont to be like? Ackman: Ferrari. Ferrari? They don't make entry-level products. Ackman: The story of Ferrari is the story of Enzo being super-passionate about cars. In order to keep his car habit alive, he would take the technology from Formula One and put it into a consumer-facing product, and he would make a bunch of money selling cars to consumers. And he’d take 100% of those profits and reinvest them into building a better, winning Formula One the next year. Right? It’s a business that made no money, it lost money. He almost sold to Ford if you remember the movie. Only in the last decade did it become a profitable company. But they focused on a very, very super-long-term approach to the brand. Is there any watch out there as a collector you want that you don’t have yet? Ackman: I’d like to complete the four Churchill war watches.
Do you know where they are? Ackman: I met yesterday with Aurel Bacs [the auctioneer and head watch guru] from Phillips. He sold the Churchill, and he sold the De Gaulle. Not the Stalin one.  Bacs. Source: Phillips I would think you would have Aurel on speed dial. I’m surprised you just met. Ackman: Funny story. So I’m not an active participant in auctions, I’m busy, whatever. But Andrew [Haimovici], my nephew who’s working for Bremont right now, he said, “Bill, there’s a watch you really need to buy, this Roger Smith watch.” And he told me the whole story. So I couldn’t fail him. That’s a good nephew. Ackman: Right. And so I went to Phillips, and they showed me around. I met Roger Smith, and I said, “Wow, this is great. I’d love to bid in more auctions. Please send me the catalog.” But I never got the catalog, and I haven’t been to another Phillips auction since. So yesterday I’m with Aurel at dinner, and I’m like, “You can do me a favor. I’ve been trying to get Phillips to send me a catalog.” He picks up the phone and calls the office and says, “What’s with the catalog?” And they had me on like, do not disturb, don’t send mailings. Yikes. Ackman: I said, “Well that cost you a lot.”
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